Transcript
Show ID [00:00:04]:
The power of data is undeniable. And unharnessed, it's nothing but chaos.
The amount of data was crazy.
Can I trust it?
You will waste money. Held together with duct tape. Doomed to failure.
This season, we're solving problems in real-time to reveal the art of the possible.
Making data your ally, using it to lead with confidence and clarity, helping communities and people thrive.
This is Data-Driven Leadership, a show by Resultant.
Jess Carter [00:00:34]:
Welcome back to Data-Driven Leadership. As leaders, we're constantly navigating our strategies, trying to balance short- and long-term needs where the pressure to react quickly can easily pull us away from what truly drives long-term impact. The real challenge isn't just keeping up, it's cutting through the noise to identify the signals that matter most and making deliberate strategic choices for our businesses.
Today, we're diving deep into how leaders can sharpen their strategic focus, maintain clarity of purpose, taking the time to reassess and assure you're leading the organization to the best outcomes. Our guest, John Roach, president at Resultant brings a wealth of experience in helping leaders think strategically, zoom out to the bigger picture, and provide a fresh perspective. John is known for coaching teams to move beyond what I say is playing checkers to thinking that they're playing chess and navigating change with purpose, not reaction. In this episode, we'll also explore why successful leadership starts and ends with people ensuring alignment, resilience, and clarity with your team. If you're looking for actionable insights on how to lead with strategy and purpose, this conversation is for you. Let's get into it.
Jess Carter [00:01:43]:
Welcome back to Data-Driven Leadership. I'm your host, Jess Carter. Today we have John Roach, president here at Resultant, joining us as our guest. Let's get into it. John, welcome.
John Roach [00:01:51]:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Jess Carter [00:01:53]:
Yeah. So you've been here before, right? Our last episode was one of the first ones we did, talking about, I think, how to build a data strategy, right?
John Roach [00:02:02]:
Been a long time, but yes, I remember.
Jess Carter [00:02:06]:
I can't believe we're here today. I didn't think that. I wasn't sure what hosting a podcast would do. So at least we got that one out there. Now we get to have a second one.
John Roach [00:02:14]:
Yeah, that's right. I think, you know, you got got started on the right foot and I've been sort of anxiously awaiting the release of all the episodes since and they've been phenomenal. It's, I think, you know, testament to the direction you've taken it and that we're doing this again.
Jess Carter [00:02:30]:
Well, that is kind of you and all of those accolades should go to our producers, but I do like hitting record and having cool conversations with amazing people.
So I have some ideas about what I would like to hear from you today. I'm open to anything else that you want to share, but one of the things when I was reflecting on your presence in my professional career that I wish we could steal and borrow and put in capsules and sell is I think that you do have just, like, this really incredible strategy mind. And I do think that part of that. So we talked about data strategy on the last episode with you, but I think just in general, like, just how do you look at a company, look at its strategy, evaluate if it's high efficacy or not, and decide when to turn left or right from that strategy? When do you readjust? When do you reassess?
I think that you're one of those minds that is really interesting. It'd be fun to pick your brain because I have this, like, there's this persona that you've been in my life where when we're heading in a direction, the number of times that we've got everybody around the idea, we're totally galvanized, everybody's ready to go march in one direction, and you are usually the voice at the very last second that I would, I wouldn't mind kicking in the shins, but it's useful and powerful that you'll say, why are we even doing that? And I think a lot of that is this really interesting forced pause. But I don't know that we've ever stopped to talk about your why.
Jess Carter [00:03:49]:
Like, these are behaviors I've observed of you as a leader and that we've never really stopped to slow down and talk about why you introduce those or what you're really looking for. And so I just thought we could start with why you do some of the things you do.
John Roach [00:04:05]:
Sure. So I talk about this sometimes as the consultant's advantage, but I think we always. I mean, we as consultants are equally susceptible to falling into this mode. I think when you're starting something out, like very beginning, completely clean sheet of paper, it's relatively easy for people to say, okay, I'm moving in this direction. Here's like, big picture, what I aim to accomplish. You know, here's the sort of fundamental value I aim to create with this thing I'm going to go do. And then you start going and doing it.
John Roach [00:04:38]:
And along the way, you learn things, and along the way you make a bunch of decisions. Some of the assumptions you made at the beginning aren't right. Some of them are right. And you just end up making like decision after decision after decision. Sometimes you veer kind of off that path of the original objective and it's completely fine. And sometimes you veer off that path from the original objective and you didn't really notice you were doing it because, you know, it's just a, you know, a one-degree turn here and then you drive five miles and then it's like a one-degree turn here and then you drive five miles and then you look how far you are off the path and you're like, geez, I didn't, I didn't know that I really intended to do that. I call it the consultant’s advantage. Because when you're inside of an organization, the day-to-day often dominates what you're thinking about.
Jess Carter [00:05:29]:
Right.
John Roach [00:05:30]:
And that day-to-day work is often really hard and intellectually demanding. So all your focus goes there and all those little decisions accumulate to getting way off path. And I think sometimes when you're trying to figure out, you know, solutions to really complex problems, coming back to that bedrock, that unchangeable or, you know, unchanging thing that you're trying to accomplish, I think is really, really helpful to make sure that if you're veering off course, it means, yeah, I've chosen this new course. Not I've made 47 decisions that have gotten me off of the initial course without me noticing I was off the course.
Jess Carter [00:06:09]:
The art of deliberateness. Yeah, okay, well, and ‘cause I think there are times where I think that you are, you know, excessively patient at times, too, as a leader of your own priorities in our, in our company too. And so the other thing I'm curious about is how do you decide how long to let something play out before you're reevaluating if it's off course or not?
John Roach [00:06:32]:
Excessive patience is something I've never been accused of. So thank you for that.
Jess Carter [00:06:37]:
Well, sorry, I should contextualize it's excessive patience in light of the context of knowing you.
John Roach [00:06:43]:
Yeah, okay, that's, that's probably more fair. Organizations and societies are really complex systems. Folks closer to a problem often make much better, more informed decisions about how to solve that problem. What you probably perceive as that patience is a recognition I've come to over the years that we have to depend on people, you know, up, down, or across the organization to do their jobs really effectively. And I concede that again, the folks closer to the problem probably have a bunch more context and insight about that situation than I might, really. What I view my job as in those situations is just making sure that they are considerate of that bedrock. So it's really easy to like all. All the things surrounding solving a problem that are close to it are really important. But so is the reason you're solving it in the first place.
Jess Carter [00:07:41]:
I think that's where I've seen you engage the most too, is these moments when you're like, is this a problem even worth solving still? Have the dynamics shifted enough that it's. It was our top priority two, four months ago, nine months ago. It's. It's really not anymore and we shouldn't be applying the same. And I'm somebody who I can kind of be a pretty good soldier. So I can get stuck in the, “But we said we were going to fix it, we got to fix it.” And I think you tend to be pretty good at shaking me to be like, hang on, is it worth fixing? There's this other thing over here that we might want to care about more.
Jess Carter [00:08:12]:
And I think you do a great job kind of asking the right, in my head, Socratic questions that are gentle and kind, but help people appreciate. Hey, we're all over here worrying about this thing. Is that the highest and best use of us? I think a lot of that requires reflection in my head. And we. You are like the fastest walker I've ever met. Like you would put mall walkers to shame. You are so fast moving, but you also have this like, reflection in you. Like how, how do you juggle all of that, John? I know that you are a reader, but you also are in the news all the time. How do you juggle and prioritize and value reflection versus action as a leader?
John Roach [00:08:53]:
The leaders of any organization, your job is really to step back periodically and make sure the organization is focused on the highest and best things that the organization can focus on to improve and achieve its mission. And thinking about how those things change over time. It's of course a reflection of the evolution of that organization. Every organization is operating in a really complex competitive landscape. And that competitive landscape is determined by all of the stuff that alternatives and competitors do and the changing demands of clients operating in their markets. But it's also influenced by all of the changes in the tools that are available to us. You know, over the past…
John Roach [00:09:41]:
Gosh, I'd say over the past 12, 24 months, we've seen a velocity of change in the tools available to us to more effectively leverage data that I can ever remember. And I think as an organization whose mission is to help organizations achieve their mission through the use of technology and data, we have to ensure that we are keeping pace with all of that underlying change. And if we don't come up for air periodically and ask the question, like, “Are we focused on the highest and best things that are going to help us achieve our mission?” I think it's really easy just to veer off course gradually and incrementally with small decisions.
Jess Carter [00:10:20]:
That's really well said. I'm sure that there are a lot of people who find themselves in that space, and I was going to ask you about that too, is in my experience, at least to your point, about the last 18 to 24 months, or 12 to 24. I don't even like using this description, but for the sake of the conversation, there's just a lot of noise. There's a lot going on, there's a lot of activity, there's a lot of change. I mean, just a year ago we were dealing with the implications legally of ChatGPT and The New York Times. I mean, like, so much has changed even in the last 12 months. To your point that one of the things that I wanted to ask you is your take on, how do you make sure you're not overreacting or underreacting to the changes in the market, in your business, your business strategy, your business plan? How do you discern signal from noise?
John Roach [00:11:11]:
I think when you look at the evolution of modern society, development, one of the best things that has happened is the speed and propagation of communications. Getting asked about things like natural disasters, we hear about them all the time now, not because, you know, they're necessarily happening more, but because it's just so much easier to communicate across the globe. And, you know, that velocity and sheer volume of communication, I think, has been a phenomenal development in society. And it also makes it dramatically harder to understand what's important and what's not important. That becomes even harder when you have insurance motivations for people to make something a big deal when it's not a big deal. And I think when you look at, I'll pick on, you know, one subset of the, you know, the industry, everyone's probably really familiar with that, I think separates those who are really good at decoupling signal and noise, and that's investing. And I think when you look at, you know, somebody like Warren Buffett or Charlie Munger and Berkshire Hathaway, I don't think they're phenomenal business operators. I'm sure they're great at it, but I don't think that's what's made them so successful.
John Roach [00:12:22]:
I think what's made them so successful is their ability to decouple signal from noise and really understand what that signal is saying about shifts that are likely to happen in that competitive landscape over a longer period of time.
Jess Carter [00:12:37]:
Yeah.
John Roach [00:12:38]:
And then, of course, they've been successful. Directing investment towards things that are going to benefit from those shifts. I think as leaders shaping strategy with that sort of unwavering bedrock of the mission serving as a guide, I think really stepping back, understanding fundamentally what is likely to change in a market and what are little ripples that are probably going to fizzle out is super challenging. I don't know that there's an easy way to do that, but I think people that are effective in doing it gather a lot of information. They look at all that information as objectively as they possibly can, and then they apply their own brain to the problem. Skipping that hard step of synthesizing and analyzing the information with your brain while just like, reading what somebody else thinks. I think is a tempting shortcut, and I think it's a horribly myopic shortcut.
Jess Carter [00:13:36]:
Yeah. I mean, we've been in the room several times together with clients or team members and had that awkward silence of, okay, here's all the data. What do we think? We do this wrestling with what do we really think it means? And why do we think that? And we challenge each other's beliefs. And there's a lot of. Is that fact that we're basing our conversation off of or intuition? Or is it emotion and feeling? But there is this almost grappling is the word I would use to be like, so what? Right. I think, like, the stock market is such a great analogy or example, rather, because, you know, if you were a reactionist, you would never sleep and you would probably make a bunch of silly mistakes because you're reacting to each moment in each day. So then my question for you is, like, how do you decide? You know, I guess maybe this is the piece where it's.
Jess Carter [00:14:26]:
It's the art. It's applying your brain to your context, your industry, your work is, how do you decide what's overreaction and what's under reaction? Right.
John Roach [00:14:34]:
I'm going to answer your question in a slightly different way. There's a generally accepted investment philosophy called the barbell strategy. So most investors tend to invest sort of right down the middle of their risk tolerance. So they tend to target every investment they make in trying to balance. Yeah, this seems like. Seems like the, you know, the risk return on this thing is consistent with my innate tolerance for that risk in return. What that ends up with is a lot of investments sort of right in the middle and a lot of people guiding investments in that way. So think of the corollary business strategy, kind of like right in the middle.
John Roach [00:15:12]:
The barbell strategy essentially says, hey, you're never going to see outsized upside when you do that, never going to see outsized business growth. And the accumulation of that risk is actually going to be more than you're willing to take, but you can't really realize it. So what barbell strategy says you should do instead is direct the bulk of your investments or the decisions or bets you're making as an organization. The bottom end of that is tolerance. So creating a stable base.
Jess Carter [00:15:39]:
Okay.
John Roach [00:15:39]:
And then direct a small subset way out on the edge of that risk tolerance. So could flame out and do nothing, could provide an extraordinary reward. In setting business strategy, you know, again, anchored to that bedrock. Most of what this strategy says is you should be doing are things that are really safe and very incrementally improve your ability to, you know, achieve that mission.
Jess Carter [00:16:06]:
Okay.
John Roach [00:16:07]:
And then what you should do is direct a small subset of those decisions to complete and total outliers. Like, this thing might not work at all, but if it does work, I'm placing this bet in the market, it would provide a really large outsized return. I think about strategy the same way.
Jess Carter [00:16:24]:
You're basically saying that there's a correlation to risk. Part of the answer is how much risk are you willing to tolerate?
John Roach [00:16:29]:
Yep. If you're making lots of, lots of bets, lots of decisions that have a medium amount of risk, that's going to set you up with a really risky overall strategy.
Jess Carter [00:16:37]:
That makes a ton of sense to me that there and there is this, then this evaluation of again applying your brain to the concept is how, how risk-averse is your business naturally, right? So I'm assuming you go through these exercises, John, as a leader of a business, where you're thinking, what are the things that could impact our business? You know, what are the things that we must lean into like you were talking about with innovation. If we're not taking ourselves outside of the day-to-day and the hour-to-hour with our clients and figuring out what are the newest technologies and what are the products that we need to be looking at and how do we get our arms around those so that as clients start to want to do more exciting, innovative things, we know exactly how to help them. Because we're not just promising that we them that we will and then using them as a guinea pig. We've done our work to understand and appreciate how to help them with those things, right?
John Roach [00:17:27]:
I 100% agree. You know, one of the advantages the last 17 years have afforded us in our organization is the commonality in problems that we're solving for clients now is relatively high. You know, we have an initial conversation with a client about, like, hey, I'm experiencing this, this issue inside of my business where I want to accomplish this thing for my organization. Here's the context. The likelihood that we've solved really, really similar problems for similar organizations is high. So in thinking about the decisions a client is making on accomplishing their strategy, we now have become that really low-risk decision for them. We've done something a handful of times. We know exactly what the indicators that we're on track or off track are.
John Roach [00:18:13]:
We know exactly how much risk they are assuming in doing the work, and we can advise them on that. If we haven't done something before, we can have a conversation with them about that.
Jess Carter [00:18:22]:
Right. Well, and I remember, like, something I really like about you. We. I actually, okay, this is an insider scoop for people who don't know how podcasts work. We record all of these and then we do editing, and then we check with people, make sure they all sound okay, and then we post them. So I don't always know the order in which we're recording and releasing. So people may already get a chance to hear the Southwest Airlines, one of the conversations we had with France Grenot, but one of the things she mentioned that, John, I think you do this all the time, and I really appreciate it. She was like, hey, when we were aligning our business to kind of where we wanted it to go, we didn't see anything in the airline market that was impressive to us when it came to customer experience.
Jess Carter [00:18:59]:
So we went and met with the top hospitality, like, hotels in the world and understood what do they do that makes them so successful and how do we apply it to our industry? I remember years and years ago, we were talking to a company about, they were an insurance company that jumped in during disasters and had to kind of evaluate the impact on people's homes. And it was, like, novel that you were like, why are you sending your employees into, like, such dangerous areas? Why don't you just use drones? And I just, I remember thinking, like, your brain just sort of naturally thinks that way. But I, I'm now understanding that it's because you're feeding your brain some of, like, you are spending time stepping outside of the day-to-day investing in your knowledge base about different industries, what makes them unique, what's really working, and then to kind of apply these abstract thoughts to a business. And I think that, that, I think what we're saying is those are some of the things that really provide exceptional protection to a company too is when you're not just like feast or famine on the day-to-day, you're able to look to your left or your right and borrow from totally outside of your industry to understand how to reduce risk and create more probability in the bets you're making as an organization. I think that's so cool. And I think I've seen you do that in context, but not understand or appreciate how you're capable of that. Does that make sense?
John Roach [00:20:19]:
I think so.
Jess Carter [00:20:22]:
It's just you don't see, you don't see everyone capable of jumping context in that way and able to steal and borrow and also have the, I don't know if this is the right word, but the brazenness to be like, well, why wouldn't that work? Like, I think that's something that's unique to you that I would hope people would hear it too is there's this, what do we have to fear? Like, let's get fun and really think about things that could innovate and drive meaningful outcomes for our business or our clients businesses in ways that people aren't willing to think about them yet. Why not? And I feel like that's an attitude that, you know, has permeated our company because, because of that. You know what I mean?
John Roach [00:20:58]:
I hope so. Yeah. I mean if, if we never tried anything new in society, we would get the same outcomes over and over and over, right?
Jess Carter [00:21:06]:
Uh huh huh. Well, okay, I know that we're wrapping up on time here, so if I'm a listener, what I've heard are some really cool approaches to thinking about, really reflecting on how much risk tolerance your business is tolerating could tolerate, how often to really reevaluate the direction you're taking and if you've gotten off course purposefully or not, how to think about injecting innovation into your business and exactly how to make sure that you're stepping outside of it to get fresh ideas, fresh air a little bit. Is there anything else that you'd want to make sure that you emphasize to people here on, on your second episode? Hopefully there's more to come.
John Roach [00:21:42]:
No, I, I think that was, that was a great summary. I think the only thing you, you didn't mention that I'll, I'll kind of reinforce. I. I often get asked by, you know, earlier career folks, what can I do to ensure my success or what can I do to be more successful in my career, my life? And it's interesting because I've. I've talked to other leaders of organizations, and what's interesting is all of them have. Well, while everyone has different pieces of advice, one of those pieces of advice is always really consistent. I've virtually met no people who are successful. They don't work their butts off.
John Roach [00:22:16]:
And I mentioned earlier sort of a, you know, a shortcut in synthesizing or understanding all of the information flowing at everyone all the time. And, you know, I think we tend to forget that what differentiates us as human beings is the ability to think and think through all of those things. And I think, you know, some people are, you know, really, really scared about some of the changes we're seeing in technology because they're going to, you know, their minds, like, displace jobs or displace the things that we're doing. And I mean, what strikes me is every single time there's been a major technological advancement, what it's allowed people to do is focus more of their efforts on the things that we can uniquely do as people. So I think, you know, the favorite statistic I've heard on this recently, and I think it. It's so interesting because a personal connection to this was. I mean, it's hard to even think about this scale. So do you know what a switchboard operator is?
Jess Carter [00:23:18]:
No. Oh, wait, like, from the, from, like the old days and the phones.
John Roach [00:23:22]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Jess Carter [00:23:23]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Roach [00:23:25]:
It's not that old. That's. That's last generation old. So my mom was a switchboard operator.
Jess Carter [00:23:28]:
Oh, my gosh. Really?
John Roach [00:23:30]:
So she was, I think she was, you know, 17, 18. So in high school. And, you know, when someone would make a phone call, then you'd call the operator and you'd say, who do you want to be connected to? And they would pull a physical wire out of a switchboard and plug it into the right port so it would make the connection. So at the time, that's, you know, call it. That's mid-60s, mid-60s, late-60s. Say the U.S. I don't know the exact number. Let's say the U.S. had 200 million people. Let’s say 100 million of those people were working. Do you know how many switchboard operators there were then?
Jess Carter [00:24:00]:
I can't even imagine.
John Roach [00:24:02]:
A million. A million switchboard operators. I think what's interesting is that's one of the fastest technological innovations that got adopted and completely and totally disrupted that market.
Jess Carter [00:24:16]:
Wow.
John Roach [00:24:17]:
So in the course of just a handful of years, we went from a million switchboard operators in the United States to virtually zero.
Jess Carter [00:24:25]:
Wow.
John Roach [00:24:26]:
And what ended up happening was, like, all those people just found ways to serve a better and higher use. And I think, you know, we, as a technology and data company, you know, see more and more the sort of more simple, repetitive things being automated as they should be. And I think what's so exciting about that is, you know, we get to more and more turn on the creative, analytical parts of our brain that allow organizations to benefit from all that technological advancement.
Jess Carter [00:25:00]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think I really appreciate the reminder, too, because I think when we started talking about AI years and years ago, I mean, that was your. Your reflection was, how do we leverage the extra time and the efficiency gained to apply our humanness to our business, to our lives? Right. I mean, I now have AI in my home, and I use it, and it makes our family run more smoothly. It really is helpful. So I was going to ask you. I need to steal this because I'm curious. I was going to tell you about my favorite use of AI and how it's made my life more human.
Jess Carter [00:25:33]:
And I was going to ask you if you had a favorite one, too. So can I. Can I tell you about mine?
John Roach [00:25:38]:
Sure, yeah. I'd love to hear that.
Jess Carter [00:25:39]:
So I have this tool at my house, because they're not paying us to sponsor them, I'm not going to say the name of it, but one of the things that it does is I can put in all of the restrictions that our family has, like if there's gluten intolerances or whatever. And I can say, make me a meal plan and add everything on the meal plan to a grocery list. And oh, by the way, here's everything in my fridge right now. So don't put it on the list if I already have it. And it grabs recipes of mine, it grabs recipes of their software capabilities. I can take pictures of my favorite recipes and upload them, and it'll fully pull everything in the instructions, the grocery list, everything.
Jess Carter [00:26:14]:
And it is like, I remember the days where I would sit on my couch for, like, a few hours and try and glance through all my cookbooks and decide what I was going to feed our family. And then I had to make a list, and then I had to open the pantry and the fridge and check and see if those things were there. And it has seriously saved me probably between one and three hours a week where I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't have to ideate over these things. I can give it really clear descriptions and it will spit out 80% of the time, like, stuff that my family is like, yeah, let's eat that. I'm like, that is meaningful for me as a working parent. I had used ChatGPT in some of those ways, but I didn't have products in my home that had built in AI tools that could do more specified things in those ways to target a parent, busy parent. And so that's. And then the other one was in the same tool. I can take a picture of an event or an email from school.
Jess Carter [00:27:06]:
I can hit forward to, like, a shared email, and it will load all of it into a shared family calendar. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, Brad and I don't have to juggle who's got the event and who came home with the flyer from daycare. Like, we just have all of it in a shared space. We can talk about it when we have time. And it's truly like a home, like, little home assistant. Like, it really is making our lives better.
Jess Carter [00:27:29]:
So that's my geeky. Who knew? Who knew, John, that I'd be living in a day where I could do those things?
John Roach [00:27:34]:
That is really, really cool. I would. I would love to say that mine was similarly interesting. It's absolutely not.
Jess Carter [00:27:43]:
Here we go.
John Roach [00:27:44]:
I tend to try to use tools to make what I do in work more efficient, that I almost reject them in my personal life as a. As a means of creating, like, some sort of separation. So I use a handful of AI tools now to draft additional narrative for me. So I'm really good at writing outlines. I'm really good at pouring deep thought into bullet points. But when it comes to writing, I'm relatively slow. So what I found that the largest use of me for generative AI is I'll think about exactly what I want to write, render the bullet points, and then I'll say, toss these into narrative. I think everyone does that.
John Roach [00:28:19]:
I think the key point that I've seen some folks not do is you've got to edit it afterwards. I'll go through two rounds of edit edits of that. That narrative afterwards. So I'm sure it says kind of exactly what I want it to say in the way I want it to say it.
Jess Carter [00:28:31]:
But you're also. Again, I mean, we need to wrap up. But, like, that outline is tied to your strategy skills. So I think I struggle with getting the outline right. It probably takes me seven or eight times as long as it takes you. And I know you still take time to make sure it's thoughtful. What we're learning, even with this, these AI tools, is getting the outline right matters. Like that is the key. I think they were telling us about one of the benefits of Deep Seek, which I haven't totally looked into yet, is that it shows you as it's running the algorithm, it shows you how the computer is processing what you said. So you're getting real-time feedback on how you prepped the prompt and how it understood the prompt. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. When it comes to us thinking about how do we write better prompts, how do we write better outlines, how do we think about what we're setting up for efficiency, it's going to make it more or less efficient even, right? Anyway, yeah.
John Roach [00:29:21]:
I'll make that last point, like, really discreetly, even though I'm sure everyone, you know, caught it. The connection between how I use AI and how I think about organizational strategy is you've got to dedicate your time to the bullet points.
Jess Carter [00:29:34]:
Yep.
John Roach [00:29:35]:
You've got to dedicate your time to making sure that you've got, like, those high-level, like, seven, eight things, like, really, really well thought through, that those are the right things, that those are sort of, you know, characterized exactly how you want them to be. And you got to revisit that list.
Jess Carter [00:29:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. For real. Thank you for being here. Thanks for joining and letting me interrogate you.
John Roach [00:29:58]:
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'll have to. I'll have to check out the. The meal planning software. Even though I'm. I'm not great at following recipes. Shocker,
Jess Carter [00:30:07]:
Yeah, that doesn't shock me at all. Hey, as long as you're making a meal, we're happy, okay?
Thank you for listening. I'm your host, Jess Carter. Don't forget to follow the Data-Driven Leadership wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review, letting us know how these data topics are transforming your business and what you want to hear about next. We can't wait for you to join us on the next episode.
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