Transcript
This has been generated by AI and optimized by a human.
Show ID [00:00:04]:
The power of data is undeniable and unharnessed, it's nothing but chaos:
The amount of data was crazy.
Can I trust it?
You will waste money.
Held together with duct tape.
Doomed to failure.
This season, we're solving problems in real-time to reveal the art of the possible, making data your ally, using it to lead with confidence and clarity, helping communities and people thrive. This is Data-Driven Leadership, a show by Resultant.
Jess Carter [00:00:14]:
Hey, guys. Jess here. Welcome back. This episode is a lot different than our normal episodes, but I hope it's good-different. There are some pretty vulnerable topics that I am going to talk through with our producer, Chelsea Gill.
Jess Carter [00:00:48]:
But the overarching concepts that we share that I'm hoping you find valuable as a leader is how to leverage data by listening to your body, like what's going on in your body in a meeting? When do you feel like you're getting triggered? When do you feel like your blood pressure is rising?
For me, when something tense happens, my chest gets kind of tight. These are moments that I think if we leverage those instead of ignoring them or pushing them down in a meeting, it might actually help you address and handle what's going on that's causing your body to react that way. And so it sounds funny, but, you know, maybe we listen to our bodies instead of trying to force them into submission at work, even handling what's in front of you. We talked about this in the episode, too. What do we need to borrow as a leader, and what should we not borrow? Because we have no control over those things? And how do you make those decisions? We're going to talk about that. And then lastly, what does it look like for each leader to have sort of this, I was gonna say imaginary, but it is real…
Jess Carter [00:01:42]:
This concept of an advisory board for you as a leader, what roles do you need on your advisory board? Where do you have weaknesses as a leader? Where do you need advisors speaking into certain things in your life? And we're all going to have a different advisory board, but we will talk through that. And I'm not going to give you a spoiler, but this is a topic that's very close to my heart and close to kind of where I've been recently in my own personal journey. And I really hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to Data-Driven Leadership. I'm your host, Jess Carter. I am so excited to be back. For those of you who have followed the podcast over maybe several episodes or a season here, they've noticed that I've been not behind the mic for a few months.
Jess Carter [00:02:28]:
And that's for a reason that is going to be part of our episode theme today. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February at the ripe old age of 35 and have been going through chemotherapy and had surgery in July and am finally getting back to it. So I've been joking that there isn't someone that you'll interact with today or hear from that is more excited to be with you than me. And so, I've been dealing with some of those challenges. And again, we're going to talk through some of the power of data and some of the reflections from a leadership perspective on this episode. I have brought with us our producer, who you may remember from some previous episodes, Chelsea Gill. She has her own journey to share thematically. Chelsea, do you want to share that?
Chelsea Gill [00:03:15]:
Yeah. Jess, welcome back. And am I breaking the news early to share with everyone that you are, in fact, in remission? Like, we can celebrate that, right? We can celebrate better and better. I'm better.
Jess Carter [00:03:28]:
Yes. Yes.
Chelsea Gill [00:03:30]:
Okay. I wanted to get that out.
Jess Carter [00:03:31]:
Thank you.
Chelsea Gill [00:03:32]:
There's no reason for our audience to worry or anything like that.
Jess Carter [00:03:36]:
So very grateful.
Chelsea Gill [00:03:38]:
Yes. I have my own journey back in 2019. I was experiencing some symptoms that I thought was really odd and went to a primary care physician, had them take some blood work, and it turns out that the blood work was normal. Right? And so, according to your physician, you're fine and you just move on. And you've checked that box. See you later. But I knew in my gut something was wrong.
Chelsea Gill [00:04:02]:
I knew it wasn't right. So I went to go see a specialist, and they did an upper GI scope. And, you know, I thought, oh, maybe I have this or that. It'll be something that's, like, really treatable. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would be sitting in my office at work and get a phone call from that physician and say, you've been diagnosed with cancer. I found cancer in your pathology report, and I'm going to have to refer you to an oncologist. And in that two minutes, like your whole world just kind of falls apart.
Chelsea Gill [00:04:34]:
In some ways. You're like, what? You're blindsided by it. You don't know how to process it. And so, yes, I have. Luckily for me, we found it very early and I was able to treat it. And just like you, Jess, I am cancer free and have been in remission for four years. So, woo hoo. Good times.
Chelsea Gill [00:04:52]:
Good times.
Jess Carter [00:04:52]:
Yeah, we're celebrating that. We are celebrating good news. But you were. How old were you? Do you mind me asking. Oh, geez.
Chelsea Gill [00:04:58]:
Okay, so this was four years ago. I'm 38, so 34.
Jess Carter [00:05:02]:
Okay. Yeah. I think we just. To be really transparent with our audience, we really struggled with, does it make sense for us to do an episode about this? Because the reality was, neither of us are oncologists, neither of us are cancer specialists or experts, but there is this reality that I think, you know, we're going to air this episode in October, which is breast cancer awareness month. And it's also about, you know, it's being kind of transparent, vulnerable about where I've been. I didn't just get this haircut because I felt like it. And so I think we just wanted to be.
Jess Carter [00:05:35]:
As we discussed, our, you know, Chelsea sort of showed up and was very supportive of me through this journey, which I'm very grateful for. One of the things we tripped over was this conversation about the things we've learned along this journey of each of ours that really relates to being a great leader. And I think we just started riffing, and it was like, hey, it just makes sense to take a moment and be vulnerable and authentic and really connect with our listeners in a real way about our own reflections of recent challenges we've been through, and that seemed important.
Chelsea Gill [00:06:07]:
Well, we're all human. We all have experienced health issues, and I think it's safe to say that I'm sure everyone who's listened to this or who's listening to this episode either knows someone very close to them in their immediate family or a friend who has been diagnosed with cancer. So this is something that touches every single person. And wearing your data-driven leadership hat is not just for in the office. It is also very much so in your personal life. So I think that's what we're here to talk about. Right?
Jess Carter [00:06:36]:
Yeah, that's right. Well, so I think what we'll do is we have kind of these topics we've been sort of riffing on. They kind of start with each of our experiences about how we learn some of these things through cancer. But then it's just so easily applied to your workspace and your leadership sort of scope. And so the first thing, Chelsea already talked about it. We talked about listening to your body, that she went and got blood work done, and it said she was fine.
Jess Carter [00:07:00]:
And she knew that that wasn't right. Right, Chelsea? Like, you were like, this can't be what fine is. Right?
Chelsea Gill [00:07:05]:
Right. You know that it's not normal to have wake up with night sweats. You know, it's not normal to be losing a large amount of hair, right? You know that it's not normal to be experiencing acid reflux every single day. So there were certain things that I just knew were not part of my normal life, right? This wasn't going to be my normal.
Chelsea Gill [00:07:24]:
I knew something was wrong.
Jess Carter [00:07:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Thinking about living the rest of your life with some of those symptoms is like, hang on, there's no way. And so it's just so easy to be told. Just wait. Let's wait and see. That's a phrase I've heard from so many people when I kind of share their experience. Just wait and see.
Jess Carter [00:07:39]:
Let's. We'll monitor this. I also didn't. Wait and see. I had, like, a very bizarre symptom. I never found a lump. There was never something I could notice. There was a little tiny symptom I experienced once or twice.
Jess Carter [00:07:52]:
And December, it was something that would be so easy as a young mom to just discard because I got bigger fish to fry in life. But I listened and wouldn't take no for an answer and went and got checked, and nobody thought. They all thought I had an infection. They all thought I needed an antibiotic and I'd be fine. And everyone, the mammogram specialist, the ultrasound radiologist, the biopsy specialist, they were all just shocked when we found out that this was cancer. My primary care physician couldn't believe it. And actually, I thought I had a lump in my armpit six months earlier and went and had my doctor check it out.
Jess Carter [00:08:25]:
And so even. Even that. The interest that that was on my mind, I mean, my doctor came back and was like, do you remember that we did that? I didn't. She's like, your body was sending you signals, and you were kind of. You were listening well enough, you know? But I think back to, you know, listening to your body and understanding, I think so, so long. I was. I was a marathoner, and I was kind of taught to beat my body into submission. Just go teach it mentally.
Jess Carter [00:08:50]:
You can break those walls and you can do more. And it's like that. That's cool. We can do that. But there is an important signal to, like, what does it need down to? Like, what do you need to eat this morning for the day you have ahead of you? I'm not telling you to be a psycho, but I think we're acknowledging it was a humbling experience to learn that it matters, that your body is giving you feedback.
Chelsea Gill [00:09:11]:
Well, Jess, how many, how many data points did you have to get through before you actually knew, right? You know, for me, it was two doctors. Different blood works, different pathology reports, different procedures. It took multiple data points to get there.
Jess Carter [00:09:27]:
Yeah, like, five for me, right? Like, it was like. Like my own experience of a symptom. Me talking to my doctor to get a rec to an ob/gyn to then go get a mammogram to then go get an ultrasound and then get a biopsy, right? It's a lot. It's a lot.
Chelsea Gill [00:09:41]:
Well, not only that, I think that there's something to be said. If you're experiencing symptoms, it is worth writing that down, documenting it, because you know how, you know, your car squeaks, and then you go to the. You go to the body shop, and they're like, nothing's happening, or you go to the mechanic, right? And it doesn't squeak anymore, right? The same thing can happen. When I was going to a healthcare provider, he was like, you're not experiencing these symptoms right this second. So I'm just having a hard time understanding, like, what you're actually experiencing.
Chelsea Gill [00:10:08]:
And so I think that there's something to be said about writing all your symptoms down and documenting, like, time of day that you're having it so that when you go to see a physician, you're like, look here, look. I've collected all of this data to showcase what I'm going through.
Jess Carter [00:10:21]:
Right? What you're also saying that I think is really. So when it comes to, you're right, tracking the data, tracking the symptoms, making sure you're taking care of your health, you're not just outsourcing that to a doctor, right? When you look at data-driven leadership, there's this concept, too, of, I got to be honest with you, Charles. I've noticed more in meetings I'm showing up to. If I listen to my body in a work meeting, I'm in a productive professional work session, I'm still experiencing emotions, or my chest will get tight. I'm regularly getting feedback from my body that I wasn't conscious to before, and it's making me a better leader.
Jess Carter [00:10:56]:
It's like my body is sort of tapping me on the shoulder, saying, hey, did you know that this makes, this stresses you out? Did you know that? You're worried about this? Maybe if you wonder why you're worried about this, you'll realize it's because you're not staffed for that. You don't have the budget for this. And so I'm realizing it's actually making me a better employee, a better leader.
Chelsea Gill [00:11:10]:
I wonder, Jess, if that's something that is going to stick with you through the end of time. I remember that being the case for me for, you know, six months post-cancer, but I'm four years now removed from that, and I still have to remind myself to listen, right? And so it's, it's common sense, it seems like, right? But you have to, like, literally remind yourself every single day to listen to your body.
Jess Carter [00:11:33]:
I think it's easy to think, like, quiet. I'm trying to work, like, body quiet. And it's, it's just so interesting to be like, hold on, I'm having a really intense reaction to something that just happened. Why? Right. And your other point about the amount of data and collecting it? I think the other thing that, again, applies to data-driven leadership is self advocacy, which you did a phenomenal job of. I like to think from the first time I was ever in a hospital was having a kiddo. Like, I had to learn self advocacy. I just thought doctors, you know, they think deeply about you all the time, and they don't have any other patients.
Jess Carter [00:12:04]:
Well, like, light bulb. And it's not to villainize them. It's to realize you are one of a number of patients, sometimes hundreds, sometimes thousands. It is your job to show your work and make sure they understand you are going to be a passionate detective in this manner. Right?
Chelsea Gill [00:12:20]:
So, Jess, if I recall my journey, there were several decisions that I made based off of data that was presented to me. I'm curious, because this is really fresh for you. What decisions did you make about your treatment, about surgery, about what you're eating and ingesting every single day, about your exercise routine? What data was presented to you and how seriously did you take that data?
Jess Carter [00:12:46]:
Let's get into it. So a couple things. I like those topics. I'll try to remember each of them. So something that was really interesting to me is that there's different studies, but they show that you can reduce your risk of breast cancer. You can also reduce your risk of recurrence of breast cancer by some studies say 18%, some say as much as 30 or even one I think that said 50, by exercising 120 to 150 minutes a week.
Chelsea Gill [00:13:14]:
Bad news for me.
Jess Carter [00:13:16]:
Right. So, like, you know, when you hear that, it's just astounding because I'm listening. Like, the other thing that's confusing is percentages kind of get flipped around. So, you know, when I'm going into chemo, I'm like, so we're poisoning my body to heal my body. This feels, I'm, I'm a little bit of a hippie behind the scenes Chelsea. So I'm, I didn't love that. I was like, chemo was the hard thing for. It was a hard pill for me to swallow.
Jess Carter [00:13:37]:
It's also the singular thing that healed me. And so I remember asking, you know, does going through this chemo increase my risk of other cancers? And they're like, yeah. I mean, like, yes. And so it'd be like, hey, this percent, you know, I'm making it up. I'm not. This is, don't listen to this and trust it, but it'd be like six or 20%. But then we talk about the exercise and it's 18% to 30%. And so these numbers get thrown around and it's like, oh, yeah, like, you can reduce your risk by 30% or, oh, hey, it only increases your risk of other cancers by 18.
Jess Carter [00:14:06]:
And it's like, hold on, do these balance each other out? So there's, I had to really sit down and write down all of these stats I heard and decide for myself what I wanted to do. There is a standard of care, which I didn't know that language before, that means there's like a process and there's a sort of decided path for you when you're diagnosed with some of these more common cancers. And so they were kind of like, you're going to go through chemo, you're going to have surgery. You know, we'll go from there depending on what comes out of surgery. I had to really stop and go through that and decide, okay, but is that the path for me? There are other options out there, but they're probably not covered by insurance. They're probably stuff I'd have to travel to do. But I went and researched 18 to 30 other types of therapies, looked up the research behind them, the efficacy of them, my ability to access them or pay for them. And we sort of landed on, I don't like this phrase, but, like, I ended up with the kind of cancer that has basically the most, it's the most targeted treatment of really almost any cancer.
Jess Carter [00:15:08]:
So most people are getting all these specialty treatments because they recognize now that cancers in someone's body is so unique to their own physiology that I kind of got lucky that I basically got targeted therapy with the cancer I had as a standard of care. So that means it was covered by insurance. There was a researched path, it worked. But that data, you better believe I'm getting my exercise in, is what I'm trying to say. And then the other piece, just quickly here is I do want the world, like, this is important to me for the world to know. So I went through some data about surgery. So when we talk about surgery, the very first thing they ask you is, what kind of reconstruction do you want? So there is an assumption in that question that you want reconstruction. I had done an enormous amount of research.
Jess Carter [00:15:54]:
I'm totally excited for people who want to pursue reconstruction, but in my path, no one had. Had told me that there's an option to do something called going flat, which is to just remove the tissue altogether, close it up and move on. Reconstruction usually requires two to three surgeries at least. There's a whole bunch of data about, you know, people who've had some issues around it or, you know, I didn't want to sit there and wait until I could be happy with my body again. I just wanted to work on self acceptance. My kids are a young age. I want to go play tag. I don't want to wait.
Jess Carter [00:16:26]:
So it's not to villainize reconstruction. I'm so happy that that path exists.
Chelsea Gill [00:16:31]:
But you also made that decision based off of other data points, right? Like, you have families who has gone through this and you want to make sure that. I don't know if you want to elaborate on that at all. But it wasn't just the statistics you were seeing. Like, you had other data points. And I think that's important to know.
Jess Carter [00:16:46]:
I don't know. Like, I think a lot of people ask me, To like, do you have BRCA? And I'm like, I don't, I did get genetic testing. I don't have BRCA. It's quite random that at 35 this happened, but I do think that we've had aggressive cancers in my family.
And so for me, the idea, if you do reconstruction. My oncologist shared with me that you still have about 7% risk of recurrence. If you go flat, you have one percent risk of recurrence because they're just microscopically trying to reduce as much breast tissue as they can in your body.
So for me, to your point, I just chose to be really aggressive right now so that hopefully we don't have to do any of this again, right? So that that data was important. Like I, I was making decisions based off of how I felt like with my family history of other cancers and what we've been through, but also with the statistics I had in front of me about how to just be as aggressive as I could be.
Chelsea Gill [00:17:38]:
Let's talk about that one percent. I don't like her.
I'm trying to think about how to, how to, how to say this. So depending on your personality, you could take that one percent and be like, I am in the clear. There is no way that will be me. Or you could be type A and be like, hey, there's still a chance and I'm going to do everything I can to take precautions.
Maybe it is getting in your exercise. Maybe it is changing up your diet a bit. Maybe it is the annual testing and blood work and scans that you can get. Talk me through how you're thinking about this. And I'm sure this is like, oh, different emotions day by day, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. One percent.
How do we feel about her?
Jess Carter [00:18:34]:
Cause you're thinking in breast cancers, there's a lot of people who get it. So 1 percent is still thousands of people per year. Right? So one, I see a great therapist to work through not being afraid the rest of my life. That was really hard during chemo. I just felt terrified of this chasing me and being on my mind every day.
I remember I talked to a doctor who said, how often are you thinking about cancer? And I was like, every 20 minutes. Every day. So I think here's what matters, Chels, from a data perspective, there was nothing that could get me to zero. No doctor is going to say, if you do these things, you'll never get breast cancer again.
Right? So to me, what I ended up landing on for my own health and my own, you know, situation is one percent is as close to zero as they can say. And I have no control over that one percent. I just don't. And so I'm going to manage the things I can control, but you brought up earlier, like, food and clothing.
Like, the kinds of cookware I use and a whole bunch of other stuff, like products. I'd never been real careful about my food sources, like meat sources, I'm on a Mediterranean diet now per my, all of my doctors and what clothing I wear.
Like if you, I remember somebody saying, if you think about it, like, What you put in your body and what you put on your body are things that are impacting your physiology all day, your entire life. And so unless you're walking around naked so I think we're not advising, no, we don't advise that. But thinking about those things a little bit more, a little bit more thoughtfully with has been helpful for me to not worry about the part I can't control and worry about the rest that I can.
Chelsea Gill [00:20:13]:
So Jess, you've always been a little bit more thoughtful when you're hearing data points like this. I take a very different approach. You know, I hear one percent and I think. I am in the clear, no need to worry about it. I just want to move on, close this chapter, move on. And I'm compartmentalizing. I'm, and I'm sure a therapist could have a field day with this.
I'm sure. But the experience I had with this, and then I have some advice is that you might hear a statistic. And for me, I was 34 years old, still would love to have had kids at that point and wanted to know how this treatment was going to impact my ability to have children in the future. And based off of the cancer that I had, Hodgkin's lymphoma, I kept hearing low chance, low chance.
Like it's not gonna, it's not going to impact you. The radiation is in your small intestine. It's not going to impact anything in your reproductive organ. So you'll be fine. Right? And so I took that for what it was like, no chance. I don't need to do anything ahead of time to prepare myself. Right? Like there are procedures and things you can go to, to protect yourself.
And I didn't do those things and I wish I would have, looking back. Right? And so I think that there's something to be said about stopping to like, really think about if it's one percent or if it's low, like what if you fall into that low category? What if you aren't the lucky ones that fall into the other bucket?
And that for me, like impacted the rest of my life. Right? So not being able to have children, or going through fertility issues because in every doctor I've been to, I said, it's because of your radiation therapy that you've had. And so it's just my advice is to take it for what it is, but like really think about, well, what if, like, what if I do fall into that bucket and then make strategic decisions based off of that?
Right? I assume that a lot of people are like me who say low chance, not happening. And it's not always the case. There are people who are really lucky and there are people who are not.
Jess Carter [00:22:20]:
You know, to your point about the, you know, the one percent, there's part of me that thinks in my one percent that we're, we're kind of applying that more broadly.
There's literally nothing I can do. I think when, when you're told, hey, it's low to your point, we're signaling. If there are options, maybe we take them. Maybe we contemplate the long term and don't just, cause I think it's, I don't know about you, I just feel this pressure around doctors when I was younger of like, hey, like, yeah, it's a low chance.
Don't worry about it. They're moving on. They're moving quick. And, just like at work again, in a meeting, when somebody kind of wants you to just move with them and they don't really want a bunch of, you know, interference about a decision they're making, they kind of just move you along. And the, the skillset as a leader to say, hang on a second, what you just said is important to me.
How much time do I have to make a decision about what I think about what you just said? That is so powerful. My, my doula taught me that when I was giving birth to say, hang on a second. You are asking me about if I wanna pursue X, Y, or Z next as a next step. Do I have 20 minutes? Do I have 20 seconds? Do you have until your next appointment?
When do we lose time for me to make a decision? Because then you don't have to make it right now, but at least you know you have a chance. You have a chance to make a decision.
Chelsea Gill [00:23:32]:
Well, the outcome is always going to be a better outcome if you really take a step back and think through it. And this can apply to cancer.
This can apply to other health issues. And this can apply to, to your point, the office world, right? Corporate America or wherever, wherever you are leading.
Jess Carter [00:23:49]:
People kind of want to rush you along in a lot of areas of our lives. And to be willing to be the person that's like, hang on a second.
I'm not sure I'm with you. I get that you want me to be, do I have permission in time to go process whether I'm with you or not? That's a powerhouse leadership move.
Chelsea Gill [00:24:07]:
Well, and something that you did really well, Jess, and I would like you to talk through this is that you had several people in your corner that you call an advisory board.
Right? And I want you to talk through that about how you use that advisory board through cancer. But this also applies to your leadership position, right? That you also need an advisory board day-to-day. And so walk me through like how that came to be and if it was organic or if it just, if it was purposeful.
I'm curious.
Jess Carter [00:24:37]:
Well, hang on. First of all, were you the one that gave me that language? I forget if it was you or someone else who was like, think of your doctors as an advisory board. Like there there's not just one.
Chelsea Gill [00:24:46]:
It's possible because I had several, I think I had four at the time.
Jess Carter [00:24:50]:
So the advice I got that I think is also really important when it comes to agency as a leader is, nobody is in control of your treatment other than you. Your doctor is not in control of your treatment.
You are. And so I had a medical oncologist that is doctor language for “you're getting chemotherapy.” You only have a medical oncologist unless you're getting chemotherapy. I had a surgical oncologist for my surgery. I have a primary care physician, and then I have a whole host of other things. I have a nutritionist.
I have PT, I've got OT. I've got all these people helping me. It's why I've got these sleeves on. You really should watch, you should watch this on the YouTube channel. If you want to see the haircut and the sleeves, you know, I'm I think I got a little bit overwhelmed at first because not often, but occasionally as I was kind of interviewing people to fill these seats on the advisory board, I started by just assuming one doctor would do everything for me.
And then as I asked questions, I realized they would say like, I'm not really the person for that. Thank God, like, thank God they didn't just try to fill all the cups. They were open about, I'm not really going to be a nutritionist for you, but I can tell you what I know. And then you should talk to a nutritionist and then I could seek that out.
But it was this, this overarching concept of I'm the one running this treatment. Everyone else has a seat on my advisory board. They're not calling the shots. I am. It is my job. It is my agency. And if you're not doing what I'd like you to do, we will remove you from the board.
Chelsea Gill [00:26:12]:
So, but not everyone on your advisory board was medical, right?
You also had individuals at work that were kind of. Yeah. Guiding you and cheering you on. And you had friends and family who are also kind of considered to be part of your advisory board as well, right? Yeah. Because there was so much more that outside of work and the medical that you had to think about: your children, your marriage, right?
All of it.
Jess Carter [00:26:39]:
You're absolutely right. We had support systems on the advisory board. I mean, there, there were, I think even if you apply this to work, right, what I'm saying is. Maybe this is not, you know, people aren't going to love this, but pleasing your boss isn't good leadership. Hard stop. If you're going to be a good data-driven leader, your job is to understand real gaps that work at your company, at your nonprofit, in your community, wherever you're a leader.
And to help fill them and help align people to those gaps being filled in a way that helps them fulfill their mission, vision, and values. And sometimes that means creating tension. It doesn't mean people-pleasing the person ahead of you on an org chart every time. That's not the goal. That's not leadership.
And I think realizing right now, who's your advisory board? The other reason I think this is important, you have to listen and hear them out. And so it ensures that you are working on, am I listening and am I receiving feedback or am I talking at everyone and I'm dictating instead of receiving, like, maybe I'm being a jerk this week who on my advisory board is going to call me and be like, dude, what's happening?
Like, why are you showing up the way that you are? We need an advisory board at work. We need one for our health. Everybody needs an advisory board.
Chelsea Gill [00:27:55]:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Mic drop. Jess.
Jess Carter [00:28:01]:
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. My worst enemy. And I have learned like some serious things out of it that I think make me a better Jess and a better leader.
And I'm sure you feel that way too, right?
Chelsea Gill [00:28:13]:
Of course. I think that going through that also taught me other things such as delegating is okay. Right. I felt like a better leader because I was forced to delegate in that moment when I was going through treatment. Right? I couldn't do it all. I couldn't work my 40-hour work week and be exhausted.
So exhausted. Like, this isn't a, I went for a run and I'm tired. This is. On a different level. So, Jess and I are here to share our stories with you. Not because we're looking for sympathy. We don't want you to be worried about us in any way, shape, or form. We are here celebrating the fact that we are both in remission, but also recognize that there are a lot of people going through this right now and we feel for them.
We are here for them and we want to support them.
Jess Carter [00:29:02]:
Like I was really passionate about being open about this journey because I just, I felt so alone walking through a chemo bay where everyone was, frankly, two or three times my age. And I want people to understand there is some data out there about our like thirties and forties and cancers really being pretty predominant in that thirties and forties camp.
Right now, and not really knowing why, but noticing that compared to 50, 60, 70 is it's like doubling or tripling in the thirties and forties. And at least in the U.S. I just want people to, to know that they're not alone. They're not alone. If they're going through this at a younger age, but I do think, you know, again, then there's lessons, there's value out of this, that Chelsea, we wanted people to hear like, again, listening to your body is both important for your health.
It's also important for you to be a good leader. I think handling what's in front of you, don't borrow stuff you can't control, but decide if you want to borrow the things you can. And I think that we're, we're both saying there's agency for you to make that choice and you don't need to ever feel rushed out of a decision for yourself as a leader.
And then, like, having an advisory board, like, I think it's such an easy walk away from this episode just to stop and jot down. On your phone, you know, as you sit in a parking lot somewhere today, like who's on my advisory board and do I have some spots open I need to fill? Is somebody going to speak to me?
Do I need an advisor that's going to give me hard truth? Do I need an advisor who's going to actually challenge me at work? Do I need an advisor who's going to actually make sure that I'm taking care of my body? There's room on everybody's advisory board. If you haven't been thinking about that practically and proactively and filling, that's going to make you a better leader.
So I think as we, as we both reflected and sort of riffed earlier, it just landed on, this feels like stuff we should share. And it feels like it's aligned to the podcast and it's worth both of us deciding to be a little bit vulnerable and hope that people appreciate the intent here and just have a quick chat about more on the leadership side of things and some of the things we both have learned on our journeys.
Chelsea Gill [00:31:01]:
And we know this episode is a little bit out of the norm, but we will be getting back to regularly scheduled programming the next episode drop. So thank you for listening.
Jess Carter [00:31:09]:
You mean we shouldn't do podcast episodes about cancer every time? Maybe not.
Chelsea Gill [00:31:13]:
Maybe not.
Jess Carter [00:31:13]:
Maybe we both want to move on. Let's move on.
Let's move on. Let's close that book.
Chelsea Gill [00:31:16]:
Move on.
Jess Carter [00:31:18]:
Hear, hear. All right. Hey, Chelsea, you didn't have to do this and it is vulnerable. Thank you for doing this.
Chelsea Gill
No, thank you.
Jess Carter
Guys, thank you for listening. I'm your host, Jess Carter. This is our producer, Chelsea Gill. Don't forget to follow Data-Driven Leadership, wherever you get your podcasts, and please rate and review this and let us know how these topics are transforming your business and you. We can't wait for you to join us on the next episode.
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