Ensuring Safe, Successful Learning Environments for Iowa’s Young Students through an Integrated Data System

Transcript

Curt Merlau  [00:00:02]:

Why is data so often used as a “gotcha,” especially in education? As a former teacher, administrator and now consultant, it's a question that I ask myself all the time, which is why we're here. I'm Doctor Curt, and this is my takeover of Data-Driven Leadership. 

In this four-episode miniseries, I'll be joined by several industry experts who have made it their mission to hunt, seek, and destroy the systemic barriers to learning through IT and data. We'll share how IT and data can not only meet unmet needs, but can actually accelerate opportunities when done the right way. In my role, I work with many state education leaders across the country, which in turn exposes me to a wide variety of new and exciting strategies. I look forward to bringing you these amazing leaders to share those strategies with you. Let's bring people, policy, and technology together so that data can be our greatest ally.

Curt Merlau  [00:01:09]:

For today's episode, we are branching into the world of early care and education. And as a part of our practice’s focus, early care and education has been something that has been very prevalent in the work that we do, especially in the wake of COVID and just how important early child care and education is to a growing workforce and a developing society. And today we have the pleasure of speaking with Amanda Winslow and Doctor Heather Rouse, both from the great state of Iowa. They shed light into a really unique ecosystem that they've created in Iowa that is a partnership between the Health and Human Service agency in Iowa and Iowa State University. And what makes it really unique is not only this partnership, but also the mechanisms that they've created to actually make these data insights meaningful, but also relevant to those on the ground providing the critical services for Iowa's young children and their families. I think there's really something to take away from this conversation with regards to how to involve people and think about their interests when developing large data systems or propagating large data initiatives. And so I hope for you it is as much enlightening as it was for me and can serve as a model as you lead with data in your organizations, no matter what industry you find yourself in.

Curt Merlau  [00:02:38]:

Heather and Amanda, thanks so much for joining us today. Welcome.

Heather Rouse [00:02:41]:

Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here today.

Curt Merlau  [00:02:44]:

Oh, likewise. There's so much to get into in our conversation today just around the work that you all are doing in Iowa, particularly Iowa's system that serves its young children and families. So to get us started, help us kind of set the table, set the stage of what your world looks like, that you've invested so much your professional careers in. Amanda, would you mind me just getting us started and sharing with us a little bit more about the early care and education landscape in Iowa and the history of Early Childhood Iowa?

Amanda Winslow [00:03:21]:

Great. Yes. So Early Childhood Iowa was a bipartisan, legislated initiative that began in 1998. And so coming into 25 years of that work, we focus on prenatal through age five. And it is a partnership between state and local communities. And in Iowa, we have 99 counties, so I have the opportunity to support all 99 counties. And we are focusing on the most vulnerable populations. And within that space, our local communities receive an annual allocation of funding and from our state general aid, and they're able to make decisions at their local space of how they can inform our five legislated results areas.

Amanda Winslow [00:04:16]:

We want to ensure children are healthy, ready to succeed in school, have secure and safe, nurturing early learning environments, safe and secure communities, and overall well-being.

Curt Merlau  [00:04:32]:

It's a big task and no doubt so complex in terms of programs and services and people involved, not to mention data. We'll get to that in a moment. But, Amanda, can you give us an idea of exactly what that delivery system looks like? Because the early care and education system as we know it in the United States is very mixed. It has a myriad of different funding sources. And just help us appreciate that if folks listening aren't too familiar with, with just how exactly that's all set up.

Amanda Winslow [00:05:06]:

Right. So I'm within the Department of Health and Human Services, but we have an early childhood Iowa State Board, and on that board, we have representation from the Department of Health and Human Services. We also have Department of Education, Department of Economic Development, and Workforce Development. So we have multiple partners coming to discuss well-being for families within our communities. But specifically in the early childhood space, we have voluntary preschool for our four–year–old populations. We have evidence-based and promising practice, family support services, parent education. We have private child care options, and we have our Head Start partners providing early Head Start and Head Start. There are a lot of voluntary spaces that families can choose from in those early years, and we all have a different funding stream, we all have a different set of regulations, and families all have a different set of needs within their space of expecting a baby all the way through when their child is entering formal school years.

Curt Merlau  [00:06:27]:

And when you look at it from a student's perspective or a child's perspective, they could be involved in multiple of these programs. Right? And so you, Heather and Amanda, know all too well that then when you start, which is great, that we have a myriad of services and programs and when you start layering those on, it gets really hard to look for continuity of care. Right? And how are we serving children? And let alone what happened to the infant that was cared for through a home visiting program, what happened to that child upon entering kindergarten? How well did we do with that? Or are there any other ways you guys would illustrate, either of you would illustrate the complexities involved?

Amanda Winslow [00:07:08]:

Right. This will start into our conversation of our integrated data system. But, for example, we kind of started the conversations of how do we know the children are born here in our state? Do they stay in our state? And what services do they access before they enter kindergarten? And even, can we identify, what difference did that make then at the third-grade level, for example, if they were in Head Start, did that help them succeed more than their like peers who didn't have the opportunity?

Curt Merlau  [00:07:43]:

And Amanda, you mentioned 99 counties. We just talked about a myriad of programs and services. You mentioned that every local community is different with its unique needs. Talk to me a little bit about this effort, what catchment effort looks like. How are you able to get 99 counties and these hundreds of programs involved? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Amanda Winslow [00:08:07]:

It's a lot about partnership and inviting, really anybody, everybody who's interested in our vision statement that every child beginning at birth will be healthy and successful. So it's a big task, and it had always been our local, we have 38 local early childhood Iowa boards, and they have representation from health, education, business leaders, faith community, consumers—so a parent or grandparent and other at-large members. And they're supposed to make these decisions on their funds, on how they're going to make a difference for their youngest children and families within that space. Well, to move from “this feels good, and we think this is a good idea” to, “this is what data is telling us, and this is how we can respond in knowing that we're making a difference.” And so that's when bringing the conversations with our university partners really has enhanced our work, because we are able to drill down more onto knowing what the needs are and being able to better respond at that local level and then also at the state level having those conversations as well.

Curt Merlau  [00:09:27]:

This is a great segue then, for Heather, for you to tell us a little bit how you came to the table. But I do just want to mention that this challenge is not unique to Iowa. Every state faces this challenge of how to involve communities and have informed decision-making with this mixed delivery system. And part of the reason why we wanted to bring you on is to hear how Iowa is solving this, because it's really when we get into this exciting to hear how you all are able to link in the data so that practitioners and experts can add their expertise to what they're seeing in the data and make informed decisions. Because we all know that data is not the end all, be all. We have to add in our expertise as practitioners to interpret the data, make sense of the data, because the folks with 20-30 years of experience, we can't disregard that. We can add that, though, to data. And so, Heather.

Curt Merlau  [00:10:20]:

Yeah. Please tell us a little bit, how did you come into this picture and give us a little background and context of your work.

Heather Rouse [00:10:27]:

Yeah, well, so I'm an Iowa native, but I went to school in Philadelphia and stayed there for a really long time. That's where I got my PhD. And I did a lot of work in Philadelphia integrating, integrating, learning about integrated data systems. But when I moved back to Iowa in 2015, one of the first people I met was one of Amanda's local area directors. And as she was saying, each of them have to do these sort of community needs assessments. They need to look around the counties they serve and say, who are the children we're serving? What are the gaps in services that we need to help provide, and what are we going to do? How are we going to bring people together to meet their needs? And he had learned about some of my background and that I was interested and had starred in early childhood and that I had this data background. He says, can you come sit with us? We're trying to kind of navigate what we're going to do for our next strategic plan for these counties. And I start coming to his meetings, and all these questions keep coming up like, well, how many children are we serving across the five programs we have in these two counties? And, well, how well are they doing when they leave our programs? And are we serving all of the children that maybe qualify for services in these areas? And I'm sitting quietly in my seat making friends, and I'm going, you know what you need? You need an integrated data system, because as Amanda was saying, I mean, the way early childhood exists is a lot of silos.

Heather Rouse [00:11:59]:

You have health doing health things. You have education doing education things. You have private preschools doing private preschool things, public Head Starts in public schools. And they're all different. They're doing great work, but they're creating. They're creating silos of effort. And what that also means then is silos of data. If you want to know how many children we’re serving across programs, you really couldn't without a way to integrate data from across them so you can actually look at entire populations of kids and understand well how many of those Head Start kids are also in statewide voluntary preschool.

Heather Rouse [00:12:36]:

Until we did our work together, we weren't able to do that, and now we are. So, you know, my relationship with Amanda has evolved since then, and that's coming up on ten years now. And it's just been really fun to kind of see how those initial discussions about, well, we don't know this, but we want to keep doing good work, and we need to make decisions and what data do we have, and could we use those data in a different way? So it's really been a fun process to go along with.

Curt Merlau  [00:13:02]:

That's fantastic. And I love that we hear and use the word data silos quite a bit in every industry. I think we can all empathize with having data silos. And it just makes even more sense, as you were breaking it down, that we don't consume social programs and services in a siloed way. We're often enrolled or involved in multiple programs. And while they are focused on doing fantastic work, we really have to widen the lens to say, okay, well, how are these interacting? What is the impact, what's the dosage and frequency? And how can we be better together? Because you talk to any social program, there's always a need for more resources and more assistance, widening the aperture to really look at that, the examples you gave out there were asking really simple questions. It might surprise some folks that states really struggle with answering those questions. Right?

Heather Rouse [00:13:58]:

Right, and we are not the only one.

Curt Merlau  [00:13:59]:

No, no. In fact, and we can post the link to this in the show notes, but there's been some effort by the Education Commission of the States and Child Trends to get a pulse on what is the national landscape of integrated data systems specific to the early childhood environment. And last survey kind of shows around 22, maybe 25 states link data between some or all early childhood programs to a degree. With my experience with Resultant, we've had the pleasure of working with a couple of states, including partnering with you all, but also Georgia and Indiana, and others. But it's not as common as a lot of challenges. It's not as easy as just folding the data. Right?

Curt Merlau  [00:14:43]:

Just fold it in. Boom, you have an integrated data system overnight. And then maybe you can start us with that conversation of, and using Iowa as an example of what does that involve? So you're sitting in the chair, and you're saying, you know, what you need is an integrated data system. And you might have had to say it so many times, I wanted to get you a shirt, you know, what you need? How did you get from there to where things are now? Can you paint that picture and kind of give us appreciation for that process?

Heather Rouse [00:15:11]:

Right. Well, and so let me pause for a second, too, and say, what do I mean by an integrated data system? Because that sets up then the different components that you need. So what we're talking about is a way to understand which children are the same, which families are overlapping. Right? You know, I am one Heather. I'm not four different Heathers, depending on if you're talking to my doctor or my pediatrician or my educator or my employer. Right? So you have to… we're talking about administrative data systems.

Heather Rouse [00:15:47]:

Every time you go to the doctor and they take your information that goes into a computer somewhere, every time my child shows up at school, their attendance is registered, that goes into a computer system. So what you're talking about is taking those administrative data and linking them up at the individual child or individual person level so that you can then ask population-level questions. It's not about case management for us. This is about those bigger policy and program questions. But in order to do that, you're talking about sensitive data. So you're talking about legal agreements, you're talking about trust. I'm going to say the number one thing about an integrated data system is building trust. You have to have people that want to work together, that see the value in sharing those data across the systems, and that trust that you have built a technology that's secure, safe, and protects the confidentiality of the data that's in there.

Heather Rouse [00:16:43]:

And that you have a governance approach that allows, that dictates how those data are going to be used. Throwing them into the computer is one thing, but then you have the question of, well, who gets to query the data? And where does that information go when we get an answer to a question? And what data goes in? What data doesn't go in? So we had to wrestle with all of those different components. And, you know, one of the things I love about my, my Iowa friends is that, you know, even though we are home to Field of Dreams—if you build it, they will come. That is not the motto for integrated data systems. You don't start with technology, you start with people, because what we're talking about is, how do you generate a system that is useful, that can, people can ask the right questions and have information on the back end they can actually use? So we started with that. And really, I would say governance is probably first and foremost, one of the most important things you need when you're building a system like this.

Curt Merlau  [00:17:50]:

I love that you use that phrase if you build it they will come. I've used that so many times and we've even used it on this mini-series. And that has been the mentality when investing these large integrated data systems. Well, let's just collect the data for the sake of it. It's building huge infrastructure apparatuses. And then surely people will come and want to use this data. I mean, how could they not, right? And so much of the story of what you've done in Iowa is so people-centric. 

Curt Merlau  [00:18:22]:

And that's what we appreciate about it, because people, process, technology, we often say the people part is the where to invest in and where things will fail or succeed. The technology piece relatively—not to diminish that work—it's pretty straightforward. Right? And it's evolving all the time. And Amanda, just love for you to comment on this. This is unique in that this is a state and university partnership and one that seemed to flourish very organically. Could you comment on that and just how that has then advanced the work of Early Childhood Iowa and just kind of give us an appreciation for that type of partnership?

Amanda Winslow [00:18:59]:

Right. So, we spend a lot of time reviewing other states and their governance processes. So a lot of case studies, and there were many of us at the table that we did not come from a university lens. And so beyond our degrees, that extensive level of research wasn't everybody's favorite, but it helped inform what we found to best fit our state. And so that was that state university partnership, state employee positions do not ebb and flow as fluidly as a university partnership would allow us to ebb and flow more grad students and relative expertise depending on the project at hand. Of course, we have our pillars within the university, Heather and her team, of course, but depending on what we're working on, she can bring more expertise to the table and grow that bench. And so that fit for us. And then within that governance, really thinking about the data security that was very big for our state and ensuring that however we were going to come to agreement on data sharing, then there were data use layers as well.

Amanda Winslow [00:20:18]:

So not only were we going to securely share data, but who could see the data? What was the frequency? What was the data security protocols? And then how are you going to use it? And then before that is ready, how are those who are most knowledgeable about that data going to have the opportunity to ensure that it's being interpreted and distributed with integrity and also to the truth of what that meant. So that's why it's more human-centered, because numbers alone don't always tell the story.

Heather Rouse [00:20:57]:

Yeah, that's what I really love. Just to piggyback on that a little bit, Amanda, you know, the, the early conversations we had about who needs to be at the table and how do we make sure that whatever comes out of the system is usable and that's part of what's informed I mean, our governance approach has different workgroups that come in and out of projects as they evolve. And that was a really important piece. I mean, the data is only valuable in conversation. And we know, again, to counteract the “if you build it, they will come” mantra, we needed to have a data system that was informed by the people that created the data. And also that's translated for the people that need to use the data. So, you know, with all due respect to my team, we are not the experts in the data use.

Heather Rouse [00:21:49]:

We need to understand, well, how is it collected and how do you need it used and what does this data point mean? And so, you know, we, all of the analytics that are done with the system are done in communities that include data folks, policy folks, representatives from the different agencies. So that when we take a look at this and say, hey, it looks like only 25% of our kids are in XYZ program, are we meeting these? We can actually have the conversation with folks on the ground to translate that in real time for the folks that need it.

Curt Merlau  [00:22:23]:

That is really, I think, the goal here. And what I want to make sure we emphasize in our conversation, because again, like we said, so much of the mentality has been build it and they will come. And we've seen that hasn't been the case. And so we have to bring the people alongside in building these systems and these systems. I've often said when clients ask, well, how long does it take to build an integrated data system? Jokingly, but in all seriousness, say it's built at the speed of trust. Yes, we can build a dashboard for you overnight. That's not the issue. That built at the speed of trust.

Curt Merlau  [00:23:02]:

And Heather, you mentioned trust being a huge element to this part of what I, as I've appreciated the work that you all have done stood out to me is the shared governance model and specifically how it's designed to promote data-literate communities that enable the ongoing data use for public good. That I think is the missing conduit. Right? It's not a dashboard that is powerful. It's the conversations that happen around it and researchers for decades, years have been saying, well, here's data. But the missing link has also been, how do you translate that into practice? How do you receive that makes sense of the data and give sense to the data so that it actually is being applied in policy or in programmatic decisions. So break that down a little bit.

Curt Merlau  [00:23:54]:

Either of you can comment here on what does that mean to promote data-literate communities and what does that look like in practice?

Heather Rouse [00:24:02]:

Amanda, this is reminding me of the local area director meetings that we started having after the statewide needs assessment. Maybe you could share a little bit about that.

Amanda Winslow [00:24:12]:

Yes. So, our local communities do a community plan, and they bring their partners together. So really, again, anybody who is a partner in the early childhood space, so hospitals, our Head Starts, our school districts, our preschool programs, our child care programs, Early Childhood Iowa brings all of those partners together, and they do a community plan. So they look at their demographic data and all of these elements that come into building their community. We were able to ask in our partnership, Iowa State, with the Iowa data drive, and so they have built dashboards for us to inform population-level indicators that align with our charged result areas. So we can then look at a county level and say, this is going well, this is an area of improvement, and to allow our communities to not feel that they need to be a data scientist, but they can have it readily there for them, and then start talking about their strengths, their opportunities, their weaknesses and their threats. So a basic SWOT, but letting it be informed in their use of the data, then to make their decisions versus having to add the other layer of finding the information to begin with.

Heather Rouse [00:25:39]:

And I think one of the really neat parts about that, too. Back to what you were saying, Curt, about, well, what data do you put out? I mean, I think the traditional researcher approach to things, and I can say this with all due respect, because I am one of those people academy, the traditional approach is like, well, let me go to the literature and find out what's important, and then I'm going to study what's important, and I'm going to put it in a table, and I'm going to give it to Amanda and tell her it's important and tell her to use it.

Curt Merlau  [00:26:08]:

I think I solved the problem. Here we go.

Heather Rouse [00:26:12]:

Here's the data. Use it. No, because why do I need that? What we did with the dashboard and what we're continuing to do, we're actually going to be building this out a lot more over the next six months. We said to these area directors and to Amanda, what data do you need? What data do you actually use all the time that right now you're going to seven different websites, or you're having to call up the local school and say, “Hey, how many kids do you have on this? Okay, I’m gonna put that in my plan, thank you.” We find what they need and then put it in a way that's digestible. And then we sit back down at the table with them and say, is this how you want it? Do you want it in a line graph or a pie chart? Do you want it on a map? Do you want it layered on top of something else? Tell me what you need. Tell me what questions you have. And then we go back and we make more edits. And we've also spent some time with those directors thinking about, you know, what does training look like? Because, again, for we want, in essence of our shared partnership, we want experts to be doing what they're experts at.

Heather Rouse [00:27:16]:

These community directors, these area directors don't need to be data experts. They're strategic planners. They're supposed to be doing collaboration and coordination. They're supposed to be, like, finding the services that people need. They can rely on us to do the background nerdy data stuff and just give them what they need so they can do what they do best.

Heather Rouse [00:27:37]:

I mean, I can't remember how many times, Amanda, I talked to some of your directors, and they're like, every time I have to do this plan, it takes me 20 hours to do this and then 30 hours of formatting, and I don't even know if I have the same data point I used last time. And this is where it all came out of. Like, they shouldn't have to do that stuff. They need to know how to use the data.

Curt Merlau  [00:27:57]:

Not even in front of kids and families doing what they do best. Right. Not filling out a spreadsheet. Yeah.

Heather Rouse [00:28:03]:

Yes.

Curt Merlau  [00:28:05]:

Well, for listeners who are, who may or may not be in the early care space, there's something to take away here because the power in the data is in the conversation and in the capacity of the individuals looking at the data being data literate. And so the model that you all just described is something that anyone listening can take away and apply in their organizations. And so what I've heard you describe is a very human-centered, people-centered approach to building literacy. And I think about my days of being a teacher when I was helping kids three, being literate. You're making connections. You're making sense of what you're receiving, what you're inputting, and there's a teacher or a guide there who's helping you make those connections to yourself, to your surroundings, and you're getting familiar and you're getting comfortable and you're exploring, and then you're being empowered as you learn those new tools. And the same thing has to happen with our data. I mean, you mentioned this traditional approach of like, well, here's the data.

Curt Merlau  [00:29:02]:

Here's the table. It says, do this. Do this. Well, that is usually met with skepticism. It's met with outright rejection. But you don't know what it's like day-to-day. And then the value that is in that research is lost because there weren't those inroads built and that literacy bill to be able to receive from both ends the data and the practitioner's perspective. So we could probably spend another hour talking about just this, but you got to crawl before you run.

Curt Merlau  [00:29:33]:

And both of you probably have felt instances where you've been crawling. But, Heather, you alluded to this. The things that the state is doing now feels like you all are running with your integrated data. Could either of you comment on what the world looks like now for you all, that you have this integrated data system and how that has enabled better evaluation or better decision making, policy making, anything you want to share?

Amanda Winslow [00:30:01]:

Well, the benefit is the infrastructure is there, and so it allows us to be able to bring in new data sharing agreements that go through all the legal processes, but then to be able to generate it in an integration more readily because on the backend code is there, the security is there. And so it makes things look a lot easier than what the process was, but it is allowing that comfort level of going to I2D2 and allowing that to inform our database decision-making. So, a lot of times, that is a word that is used a lot, but the practice of what that really means looks very differently across different sectors. And so, again, establishing that trust because our system has allowed our people to inform what the data means and what do we need to help us do our jobs better? And our jobs are to ensure that children and families are strong and getting the services they need when they need them.

Curt Merlau  [00:31:17]:

I appreciate it. Heather, anything to add there?

Heather Rouse [00:31:20]:

Yeah, I think it's just been, it's been really rewarding to see at this point when leaders from across different systems will recognize the value of what's here and say, oh, I have this federal requirement where I need to show the impact of the work I've been doing. I don't actually have the data I need, but maybe we could work with I2D2 to do it. Maybe if we work with them because they have relationships built into this system between workforce development and education and human services. And I'm sitting over here in workforce development, for example. And I really need to understand how the folks going through my system are doing XYZ and how come?

Heather Rouse [00:32:09]:

Maybe I could work with them. Concrete example, our federal McVie program, every few years they do a strategic evaluation to figure out where do we need to expand programs. Are we serving those we need to be serving? Should we be doing more or less or in different counties? Well, they can turn to us and say, hey, can you give us a little bit of a roadmap of who the children and families are now compared to where we were three years ago? And we can do it relatively quickly because the roads are already there. You know, traditional research. I'm using air quotes right now. “Traditional research,” right. If you have a question, you now have to go, okay, let's go get the data.

Heather Rouse [00:32:54]:

Let's go get a legal agreement. Let's merge it all together. Let's get the questions of four years later. Legislation's already been passed, the money spent, and those children are not even there anymore. Right. But being there, you can ask questions much more quickly. We can turn things around where they can actually be used in that strategic planning. And it's, a lot of things that come up now are more timely opportunities.

Heather Rouse [00:33:21]:

Sometimes you can't anticipate when a global pandemic is going to happen, and people need answers to questions yesterday. You can't always anticipate that. Who knew? But having a system here where when something does come up, hey, we have an opportunity here in the next two months to build something out or to invest in our childcare programs or to do more training in workforce. How are we going to do it now? You can ask these questions in a more timely way so you can inform how you're going to do that strategy and take advantage of that opportunity to grow a program or improve a program or connect a program with another one.

Curt Merlau  [00:34:00]:

And like you were saying, McVie that serves infants and mothers in a variety of ways. That population can't wait for the data to be figured out and people to figure out that they'll want to get along and collaborate and share. And so what a fantastic asset Iowa has as a result of your efforts. And others who have worked alongside you in this effort as well, want to recognize that. But nearing our time, I want to ask the parting question, and both of you can respond with your perspectives. But what does data-driven leadership mean for you?

Amanda Winslow [00:34:37]:

For me, data-driven leadership means human-centered. And I think that that is used often, but in practice, that means having the what you say is going to happen and following through with the process. So no surprises to be in a collaborative space of working to understand together. So with data, being able to have a dashboard, but being able to adapt the dashboards and the corresponding reports to what it's going to help us make decisions based on. So, like Heather said earlier, we did have real conversations about, does this make sense in a pie chart or in a line graph, or does this template make sense? If we could auto-generate a community plan and to allow data to be inserted that meets what you need, but then prompting the data use conversation. And so for my experiences at a state level, that's what data-driven leadership has been. It's a collaborative partnership to be able to learn how to use the data and make sense of that data and then be able to make decisions based on that process.

Curt Merlau  [00:36:01]:

I love that. Heather, anything to add there? Your experience?

Heather Rouse [00:36:05]:

Yeah, I think. I think there's a lot of reasons why I love working with Amanda, and a lot of them are that I don't have to say things because she says the same thing. Just to piggyback a little bit, you know, that the relationships of it all, I think, are so important. So, data-driven leadership, to me, means you have trusted partners that you can work with to ask hard questions. Sometimes you're going to get answers back that you don't like, but you have partners that are going to stay there with you at the table to help make those decisions, to help implement things that maybe need changed or done, and they're going to stick with you and study it again to see if it's working. Data isn't done once. Data should be a cycle of inquiry. It should be, if leaders are using data in a strategic way, they ask questions and then they make some decisions, and then they ask questions again, and then they make some decisions, and then they ask questions again, and then they make some decisions.

Heather Rouse [00:37:11]:

And, you know, I just. I just hope I continue to be able to be at the table with some of those wonderful leaders like Amanda, who are really making that happen.

Curt Merlau  [00:37:20]:

I love that and really appreciate your time today and your perspectives. Something for everyone, truly. We have really enjoyed our partnership with you all and all of the great work that you're doing. It really is an exemplar for the rest of the country and other sectors as well. So keep up. Keep up the great work. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the education miniseries. I'm your host, Doctor Curt.

Curt Merlau  [00:37:47]:

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